Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler

Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations | 777 Checkride

DVA4564
Captain, B757-200

Joined on June 13 2007

Southeastern United States

51 legs, 93.5 hours
46 legs, 86.9 hours online
49 legs, 88.5 hours ACARS
1 legs, 5.7 hours event

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:30 ET by Dan Everette

Is there any reason that I'm prohibited from using a 777 other than the one from the DVA fleet installer? I've heard of multiple people being able to use the PSS model (of which I own) and can fly quite competently through the assigned checkride.

However, given that use of any model other than the DVA fleet model:

"Use of any other aircraft (i.e.: PSS, Wilco/ FeelThere, Etc.) will automatically fail the check ride."

has made me withdraw my request to sit for the checkride. I spent 90 minutes trying to figure out the panel (no documentation is supplied) and 2 critical items didn't even work. I decided to try and fly the CR anyway (prior to doing it with ACARS) and I was surprised to find a couple other items which are a bit skewed.

Then, on arrival to shoot the Parkway Visual 13L into JFK, I was surprised to find that even lacking a VC, there are NO 2-d panels other than the front view. So, I can't even look out at my 2 o-clock and have an internal (cockpit window) reference to judge when to start turning base to final and judge the quality of the turn and adjust.

Every other checkride I've done, I've been able to use the payware models I love to fly (for good reasons), yet this is the first one I've been handed where I'm required to use a "fleet" model which only about half-works, and makes properly flying a charted visual quite comical at best.

Dan Everette

Captain, B757-200

DVA3280
Senior Captain, B757-200
COMM
E-MAIL

Joined on June 28 2006
Online Six Century Club
Events Double Century Club
Million Mile Club
Millennium Club
50 State Club
Safari Club
Tin Dispatcher
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary

"Keep Climbing!"
Coral Gables, FL

1,235 legs, 3,325.6 hours
1,200 legs, 3,254.3 hours online
1,144 legs, 3,053.6 hours ACARS
259 legs, 682.3 hours event
211 legs dispatched, 126.8 hours

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:45 ET by Robby Chiste

Dan, I am having some trouble sympathizing with you. The 777 program has been doing it this way for a while now, Adam and his team are very specific with attention to detail for a reason. It is DVA's highest program and it is not meant to be easy.

The fleet installer may not have everything, but I am sure it has has all you need to fly the flight successfully. Just ask all those that have flown the flight with the Fleet Installer before you with no complaints.

If you have a problem, email Adam and his staff, no forum post required.

Regards,

Robby Chiste

Senior Captain, B757-200

DVA1583
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP

Joined on March 23 2004
Everett 250 Club
Online Six Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Seven Century Club

South America

710 legs, 1,938.2 hours
619 legs, 1,760.2 hours online
589 legs, 1,630.3 hours ACARS
16 legs, 61.2 hours event

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:49 ET by Charly Azcue

The 777 staff will respond about their CR .. I just might add the CR request (and the staff wants to check) that certain parameters are followed by the pilot .. if you use the PSS, this parameters are not recorded and can't be graded which means an automatic CR rejection. The 757 CR request the same but you didn't had to fly the 757 CR since you were hired as a 757 pilot.

It's easy? no .. nobody said the CRs are easy.. however if you practice you can pass, several people passed this particular CR, I don't see why you can't .. for looking at your 3 o'clock you can use the POV of your joystick/yoke, you simply mantain the up-right diagonal view with the POV button, release the button and you came back to foward view.

Regards

Charly Azcue (DVA1583)

DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP

Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club

"Col. Panic"
Marietta, GA

2,347 legs, 9,466.0 hours
240 legs, 553.9 hours online
2,005 legs, 8,259.1 hours ACARS
75 legs, 196.3 hours event
2,383 legs, 9,600.9 hours total
91 legs dispatched, 66.4 hours

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:49 ET by Luke Kolin

If you're used to a Virtual Cockpit, then I can see your point. Drop Adam a line with your concerns.

Cheers!

Luke Kolin

Senior Captain, MD-11

DVA2192
Senior Captain, A320
OLP

Joined on March 14 2005
50 State Club
Million Mile Club
Flying Colonel
Online Fifteen Century
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Long Beach 500 Club

Attleboro, MA USA

1,703 legs, 3,149.7 hours
1,635 legs, 2,989.8 hours online
1,667 legs, 3,076.4 hours ACARS
3 legs, 5.5 hours event

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:50 ET by Richard Walsh

I flew my 777 CR with the PSS. It was the first thing I put in the "Pilot Comments " section. It was just a few weeks short of a year ago.

Richard Walsh

Senior Captain, A320

DVA4564
Captain, B757-200

Joined on June 13 2007

Southeastern United States

51 legs, 93.5 hours
46 legs, 86.9 hours online
49 legs, 88.5 hours ACARS
1 legs, 5.7 hours event

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:53 ET by Dan Everette

Robby,

I'm not trying to gang up on anyone. I asked a very simple question (and I did send an e-mail to him with specific problems with the aircraft/panel), that's all. I just find it very interesting that use of any other aircraft other than the default fleet model, results in an automatic failure. No explanation, nothing.

The fact that it being DVA's highest program, and other pilots may not have had problems in the past with it, simply doesn't wash and is a cop out. It's the same as practicing commercial maneuvers for dozens of hours in a Cutlass in preparation for your checkride, then when you show up for your ride, the DE says "you have to use an Arrow, and it has a complete avionic refit, and no manual, let's go fly".

Perhaps you (or others) may be able to fly a heavy along the Parkway VISUAL approach just staring out the front 2-D panel, but perhaps I prefer a little more realism in my flying.

Dan Everette

Captain, B757-200

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:54 ET by Robby Chiste

Richie, the 777 Check ride has changed since, I did the same thing.

Regards,

Robby Chiste

Senior Captain, B757-200

DVA1070
Senior Captain, B777-200
COMM

Joined on January 28 2003
Online Century Club
Double Century Club

"I believe I can fly"
Jeffersonville, IN USA

218 legs, 841.9 hours
182 legs, 778.3 hours online
108 legs, 505.1 hours ACARS
42 legs, 200.5 hours event

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 20:58 ET by Adam Gaweda

"Is there any reason that I'm prohibited from using a 777 other than the one from the DVA fleet installer?"

Reason 1. JUSTICE FOR ALL.
Read: Not everybody has PSS 777 or Wilco. Why those who do should have the edge over those who do not ?

Reason 2. Payware a/c have custom systems that are not compatible with ACARS that we use to grade the checkride. For example we require that the autopilot be disengaged at certain altitudes but have no way of tracking that.

Reason 3. With payware a/c you can press some buttons and have the computer do the work for you. On the checkride, we want to see if you know what you're doing not if you know what buttons to press in what sequence. In other words, we want to see how you fly the aircraft not how the aircraft flies you.

"I spent 90 minutes trying to figure out the panel (no documentation is supplied) and 2 critical items didn't even work .... was surprised to find a couple other items which are a bit skewed"

If you can tell us what the 2 critical items are, as well as those other that are skewed, maybe we can fix them.

"Then, on arrival to shoot the Parkway Visual 13L into JFK, I was surprised to find that even lacking a VC, there are NO 2-d panels other than the front view"

Press W

"Every other checkride I've done, I've been able to use the payware models I love to fly "

I guess you took those long while ago.

"I'm required to use a "fleet" model which only about half-works, and makes properly flying a charted visual quite comical at best"

We've had some people nail this checkride, so it's not as bad you try to potray it.

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 21:00 ET by Robby Chiste

Dan, if you already sent him mail, I don't see what the purpose of this was for, thats all. I am 99% sure it was switched to this method for that program for consistency and fairness to all who take it, but Adam will let you know for sure.

I pan in the 2D panel with my hat switch, which is faster and easier than panning in a VC, its just as quick as turning my head in an instant as opposed to waiting for the cam to go left or right. So IMO that would be more realistic.

Regards,

Robby Chiste

Senior Captain, B757-200

DVA4564
Captain, B757-200

Joined on June 13 2007

Southeastern United States

51 legs, 93.5 hours
46 legs, 86.9 hours online
49 legs, 88.5 hours ACARS
1 legs, 5.7 hours event

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 21:00 ET by Dan Everette

I think the problem here is the disparity of flying 2-D vs VC. I am a VERY VC oriented person on takeoff, approach and landing phases. This is simply due to the fact that the VC provides a much more realistic perspective to the real thing, and makes judging 'virtual' distances and closure rates easier.

I could honestly care less what others have done, and the comment of "CR's are meant to be hard" is simply an insult to my intelligence. You missed my entire point about about the 2-o'clock reference. I did use my hat switch, and guess what? No panel, no internal cockpit view. This is lacking in that there is nothing on which to reference the airplane to to gauge motion. Yes the scene moves, but just like in the real world, I use references in the cockpit to determine when to perform certain actions (such as starting my final turn, and when to roll out on final.

Dan Everette

Captain, B757-200

Posted onPost created on May 28 2008 21:01 ET by Robby Chiste

And Amen, Adam. razz

Regards,

Robby Chiste

Senior Captain, B757-200

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